The hazard of Immature Discussion

This is a good communication trail to portray how a communication turns into heated debate by missing certain facts and by biased opinion on general norms. The communication took place between clusters of school friends one of whom happen to serve the army who sent some patriotic quotes by army for others to read. The next message trails took place which is narrated exactly as mentioned below.


PV: भारत के थल सेनाध्यक्ष जनरल विपिन रावत ने चाहा है कि भारत का हर व्यक्ति भारतीय सेना के बारे में नीचे लिखे वाक्यों को अवश्य पढ़े। आपसे सादर आग्रह है कि कृपया इन अमूल्य ‘राष्ट्र रक्षा सूत्रों’ को विभिन्न माध्यमों से अधिक से अधिक देशवासियों तक पहुँचाने में सहयोग कीजिए. भारतीय सेना 10 सर्वश्रेष्ठ अनमोल वचन: अवश्य पढें। इन्हें पढकर सच्चे गर्व की अनुभूति होती है।

  1. “मैं तिरंगा फहराकर वापस आऊंगा या फिर तिरंगे में लिपटकर आऊंगा, लेकिन मैं वापस अवश्य आऊंगा।” – कैप्टन विक्रम बत्रा, परम वीर चक्र
  1. “जो आपके लिए जीवनभर का असाधारण रोमांच है, वो हमारी रोजमर्रा की जिंदगी है।” – लेह-लद्दाख राजमार्ग पर साइनबोर्ड (भारतीय सेना)
  1. “यदि अपना शौर्य सिद्ध करने से पूर्व मेरी मृत्यु आ जाए तो ये मेरी कसम है कि मैं मृत्यु को ही मार डालूँगा।” – कैप्टन मनोज कुमार पाण्डे,परम वीर चक्र, 1/11 गोरखा राइफल्स
  1. “हमारा झण्डा इसलिए नहीं फहराता कि हवा चल रही होती है, ये हर उस जवान की आखिरी साँस से फहराता है जो इसकी रक्षा में अपने प्राणों का उत्सर्ग कर देता है।” – भारतीय सेना
  1. “हमें पाने के लिए आपको अवश्य ही अच्छा होना होगा, हमें पकडने के लिए आपको तीव्र होना होगा, किन्तु हमें जीतने के लिए आपको अवश्य ही बच्चा होना होगा।” – भारतीय सेना
  1. “ईश्वर हमारे दुश्मनों पर दया करे, क्योंकि हम तो करेंगे नहीं।” – भारतीय सेना
  1. “हमारा जीना हमारा संयोग है, हमारा प्यार हमारी पसंद है, हमारा मारना हमारा व्यवसाय है।” – अॉफीसर्स ट्रेनिंग अकादमी, चेन्नई
  1. “यदि कोई व्यक्ति कहे कि उसे मृत्यु का भय नहीं है तो वह या तो झूठ बोल रहा होगा या फिर वो इंडियन आर्मी का ही होगा।” – फील्ड मार्शल सैम मानेकशॉ
  1. “आतंकवादियों को माफ करना ईश्वर का काम है, लेकिन उनकी ईश्वर से मुलाकात करवाना हमारा काम है।” – भारतीय सेना
  1. “इसका हमें अफसोस है कि अपने देश को देने के लिए हमारे पास केवल एक ही जीवन है।” – अॉफीसर प्रेम रामचंदानी

चुटकुले तो बहोत फॉरवर्ड करते है हम, इसे आगे बढाते जाएं। सबको इंडियन आर्मी से रूबरू कराये।


AS: (Appreciation)

Dr PS: (Appreciation and clapping)

DS: Army means nationalism and patriotism. This is nothing more than a misconception promoted globally in consideration with mass sentiments. Army personals are actually doing their duty. Every citizen doing their portion of job with sincerity and dedication commands respect. For example, if farmers refuse to work or if they don’t work with full dedication and sincerity, the whole nation will end up starving. They are equally patriotic. This is just another opinion.


Dr PS: There is something called occupational hazard. In the case of defense it is self induced. What are the chances of a farmer or teacher or banker losing their life while on duty? It is much less than a defense guy. A bullet can hit any moment. Soldiers and their families have to wake up to this every morning. What about a farmer or a businessman or a teacher or a banker or any other profession? It is far less. Right? This is just my opinion.

AS: (Appreciation)

DS: It is not about facing bullet. It is about the sentiments and feelings. Rest all depends on nature of work. Labors engaged in the construction of a multi-storey building have more risk of losing their life. In fact I have seen many unnatural deaths. In many cases, I have also been a part indirectly, followed by a herd of dependents with no one to look after. They have been forced to starve later. Are they not leaving on equal edge of life? We should not bias our opinion on nature of job and risk involved. We should at least try to understand the sincerity and dedication involved. Rest all is just our perception to think and understand. I still believe that facing bullet is not more than a forced circumstances rather than choice. Reasons may be uncountable. I still believe that patriotism should not be measured by occupation hazard but the other way round.


Dr PS: I definitely believe that if you are just talking about being patriotic sitting in the comfort of an office and saying that your patriotism is equal to that of a defense guy sweating in the border, it makes me wonder. And saying all are equally patriotic is like seeing everyone with the same yard stick. By the way, we never said that civil guys are less patriotic. It is your own argument you have put to justify your argument or notion which is flawed. You want to say that defense guys and their patriotism is just a part of their occupation or any civilian job.


DS: Yes. If given opportunity they will chose a banking job rather than joining army. It has nothing to do with any sentiments. Sitting in a comfort of air condition is a professional choice. Being a sincere contributor to society and nation is patriotism. If one doesn’t understand this then no one can make them understand anything.


Dr PS: So you assume that defense guys joined the army because they did not have any choice and they don’t have the ability to make professional decisions. Unlike people who sit in the comfort of the Ac who only can take professional decisions. I also assume you mentioned that they had lots of options to take and still are equally patriotic compared to the army guys who joined just to make money without sentiment attached for the nations and without any other option left. clap clap clap.


DS: Yes. They have joined out of fascination or social compulsion to earn their living. Their nature of work forces them to think and behave accordingly. Mere portray of army person as lamb and non army as shark in itself shows narrow approach of thinking. My point only is that other segments of society are equally and sometimes more patriotic. Opportunity can never take position of factuality. It is just like a bunch of speakers declaring themselves as custodian of wisdom and rests others as another segment of fools.


PV: It seems the message has created a lot of controversy and difference of opinion. I didn’t intend doing so. I don’t want you guys to be either side of the line, though everybody has the right of having an opinion but alas they may or may not be even close to reality. It was not shared with you guys because I am in the army rather it was just a tribute to the valiant men who lay down their lives in the line of duty, and by no means was intended to challenge the patriotism of anybody. All of us in our respective jobs are contributing to the nation and society, the only difference is Army is a way of life rather than a profession and yes one chooses it for him knowing very well the risks involved however it is not because one could not excel in some other field. It is saddening to know that some of you think on those lines. If we have a look at all the nations who are doing well for themselves, they exhibit patriotism in everything they do and most importantly respect their Armed Forces. Please don’t compare us or for that matter anybody as regards to their contribution to nation building. We take pride in defending every inch of our territory since the importance of own land and the need to retain it is reminded to us everyday once we see the opponent flag flying right in front. To understand the feeling of nation please visit us or at least know what your army is doing. And finally No body questioned your patriotism so don’t question mine or give it shades of social compulsion or inability to join other professions. Hereafter I would refrain from posting such articles. I thought it was a group which would be appreciative. Nonetheless, the army doesn’t ask much of you, may be a little respect, if that’s so difficult that people start comparing. Because we do what we do and do respect the citizens

AS: Rightly said

Dr AS: Befitting reply buddy (appreciation). We are proud of army and big salute to its commitment and patriotism.

Dr PS: Great reply. Even patriotism is for sale these days and a matter of choice.

DS: First of all, I would suggest all pundits to go through the messages carefully to understand the opinion and intention involved before jumping into and taking sides. This conversation was clearly an opinion which was already mentioned in the very first message if at all anyone has noticed. Debate on any opinion is bound to happen which has nothing to do with what we do in real life. The main intended discussion point that we should respect other professions as well was never understood by anyone as it is evident from further comments of appreciation and clapping and when we don’t understand the basic theme of discussion then such threads is bound to end up like what it has appeared to turn into. If a person thinks that we should not vent another opinion and rather go with the motion then definitely that is not good for the social revolution. It is difference of options and uncomfortable debates which have evolved our society into what it is at present from where we started. The moment we stop questioning ourselves we stop contributing to the social change which is a constant and ongoing fact whether we accept it or not. I myself come from army background and I very well know and understand what army means to a nation and sentiments. Any opinion is bound to create a discussion thread and controversy. The only problem is that we very often miss the actual point and associate those discussions with personal ego. We must understand that discussion and difference of opinion are a healthy backbone of any social group. It doesn’t mean that someone is intending a controversy or fight which unfortunately has been portrayed from the message of someone. It seems we need a bit of more maturity to digest difference of opinion. Off course I cannot and can never claim to be the custodian of virtues and hence such discussions are bound to offshore.


PV: Leave the topic, point well taken, though I have understood what you are trying to say but u only started the discussion. Nobody else did. The message nowhere mentions anything about the exclusivity of patriotism being the domain of army. Your response perhaps suggests u wanted to join army. Request Dr PS to not comment any further and Show some maturity as I can’t ask DS to do that, knowing him, the loss of hair has also led to possible loss of grey matter (simile). Or possible altercations in discussions that he is fond of.


Dr PS: I will abide by your order field Marshall PS (clapping). Grey matter? All his hair and beard have grown white. Tell him to apply some hair oil (simile).


Dr RG: Sorry to rake up the issue again. (Joke). I am seeing all this only now. My slight tangential point here is that you need to see DS’s comment in broader perspective – and not that he necessarily comes from that thread, but is certainly symptomatic of that. The perspective is as follows: this argument that Army men are simply doing their duty and hence not anything special as compared to other occupations, has a history in Marxist interpretations, especially of the pseudo-secular kind that has tried ever since Independence to ensure that we do not develop a narrative that hints of any military supremacy. Look at how INA has been moved to the footnote while Nehru and Gandhi’s contribution are non-negotiable. It is a result of this hammering of a concocted framework that when the Azadi and Kanhaiya Kumar issue came up, ALL so called arm chair intellectuals in ONE tone made this argument, specially from JNU premised: Army men are working for money and is like any other occupation. It is a systematic Macalauyian agenda which has made Ashoka a hero in our history books while Shivaji, a Hindu king merely. Ashoka was a bastard of first order whose story was twisted to suit the ‘peace’ agenda of Nehru to ensure military power never achieved the high status in the minds of Indian population else their power base would come under threat. The proof of this is in the message of PV itself: nowhere in the world do the defense forces need to beg for attention and respect the way it is needed in India. The very fact that in India we need to be told about the valor and sacrifice of defense forces is a proof that the Leftist ideology is the predominant mental model. Everywhere in the world, defense forces get their due respect, in society and minds, without having to negotiate – it is because the minds are not colonized enough to seek quality certificate for something so obvious and personal life and territory protection. Of course, there is no unnecessary hype as well, and as rightly put by everyone, fighting physically is not the only way to express your patriotism, nonetheless it is definitely one of the toughest ways to do so. I fully respect DS’s view, but I only hope that it is not influenced by the larger educational malice in the system. Otherwise we would not have seen a day where a cheap third class journalist gets same level of state honors! Jai Jawan Jai Kisan and Jai All Bharatiyas who live and die for their country beyond personal motives.


DS: My gratitude to all speakers in this conversation trail. My only point was that there are untouched segments which off course need our attention. For that matter, whatever the reason or sentiment we may associate as they do not have voice and hence recognition. Being an educated section of a progressive society, we need to understand and think beyond what is visible today else there is no point in education as it is we who are going to train the upcoming generation. Now it is up to us to mould our upcoming generation as a dumb mind or a thinking brain.

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